"We need more transparency to know how corporations and the government operate"

In 2016, Andrew Fishman left the production of the United States' National Public Radio morning show, with a weekly audience of 30 million people, to join the news site The Intercept. At the helm of this outlet is Glenn Greenwald, who broke the Edward Snowden case and all the leaked documents from the National Security Agency (NSA). The Intercept is known for having a rough, unreserved, head-on, and aggressive editorial line, and Fishman will come to talk about that mission at the upcoming MediaParty, the event that under the motto "Rebooting Journalism" will bring together programmers, communicators, researchers, designers, analysts, and developers between August 29 and 31 at the Ciudad Cultural Konex.

Fishman was responsible for bringing to light a series of audios and documents that showed the world the darkest side of Lava Jato. Far removed from its original mission and competencies, the Tribunal tasked with dismantling the largest corruption case in Brazil's history evolved into a body with its own agenda. It thus became a political actor that made decisions shaping the course of life in the neighboring country: the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff, the rise of Michel Temer to the presidency, the imprisonment of Lula Da Silva, and the rise of Jair Bolsonaro as president.

The adventure culminated with Sergio Moro, the main figure behind the Lava Jato operation, as Brazil's Minister of Justice, with a promising political career ahead. Until Fishman appeared. The Intercept's revelations brought to light that the Lava Jato process had exceeded its competencies, broken the principle of separation of powers, and favored its allies by omitting important leads within the investigation. Attitudes that did not match the image of a technocratic and neutral body that Moro had installed with the help of Brazil's most important media outlets.

"Something that didn't receive much attention and needs to be better understood is the enormous amount of dollars spent on illegal and clandestine fake news campaigns via WhatsApp in favor of Bolsonaro, as revealed by the Foro de San Paulo. We know they were financed by companies, leaders, and millionaires, but then the story died," Fishman continues in a conversation with Pagina|12.

--Is democracy possible without privacy?

--I feel that every day our societies, our institutions, and our lives are becoming more precarious. I think about any person immersed in the new Gig Economy of platforms like Uber, Rappi, working for a couple of cents, whose life is completely tracked; I think about how inhumane and terrible that is, and I don't want there to be more of it.

--What do you notice as a reaction from citizens?

--There's an understanding that things are not going well, that we're not being told the truth. Lava Jato was born as an anti-corruption force, and fighting corruption is about making the powerful transparent, about bringing to light the people who abuse power or institutions.

--It's clear that we need more transparency to know how corporations and the government operate. Because when you see how they work, you can get to know what they're really doing, things you completely disagree with. The Snowden case was a revelation.

--Did you have problems as a result of the focus of this investigation?

--When you bother people with power and you're on the front line, you have to learn several things. Primarily about digital security: encrypting your communications, compartmentalizing information to limit external access, and avoiding hacking risks.

--How do you see the future in the United States, Brazil, and our region?

--I'm American and Trump is the president there. I've lived in Brazil for ten years and Bolsonaro is the president here. I'm not very optimistic about the future, although I believe that young people have a more positive vision of all this.

--Do psychological warfare operations exist or are they a myth?

--Anyone who doesn't believe there are psychological operations financed by the government or by private companies that affect elections or public opinion is fooling themselves. They don't want to believe it, but it's true. We have evidence.

--The important thing is that once people understand that this happens, it's like the effect of a vaccine. These operations are effective because people don't know about them; on the other hand, when society begins to understand, to discern the true from the false and becomes a little more cautious and distrustful, this loses its effect.

This article was originally published in Pagina/12 on August 18, 2019.